phil
3rd String
Posts: 276
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Post by phil on Sept 11, 2014 17:32:08 GMT -5
I never believed the A11FL would make it.
I am skeptical about the USFL, but at least they are apparently hunkered down trying to actually capitalize themselves.
And all the other revenue streams not only would be dwarfed by ticket revenue in such a league (with no TV money likely to come in, and certainly not a lot of it if it did), they would be dependent on it. You're not going to sell a bunch of merchandise to people who are otherwise not interested in a league and you're not going to get a lot of sponsors to pay actual money to put their message in front of non-existent eyeballs. "League owners fees?" The league IS the owners. If the owners aren't making money by selling tickets, which leads to the other revenue streams, THEY'RE NOT PAYING OWNERS FEES.
Economics don't lie. When you have them straight. You're a Euro. You don't know. You just don't.
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Post by spgpointsperson on Sept 11, 2014 21:09:23 GMT -5
So you believe the A11FL or USFL would make it but not this league? Don't forget they will not only make money from tickets. You can count merchandise, sponsors, league owners fee, etc., just like the other spring leagues that don't announce anything for months. They don't make revenue only from tickets. Economics don't lie. Another article about the NAFL but this time about the Birmingham Freedom: www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/09/is_city_ready_for_another_pro.htmlEurofan, I am going to piggyback 'phil" and his comments. The economics of minor league sport(s), and even the NHL are very simple. Quite simply, the majority of team income comes from paid attendance, also know as gate receipts. People have to be watching the games live in person for them to stay in business. Prior to the just signed national TV deals for both the USA and Canada, the NHL has over 60% of their team revenues from paid attendance and the Canadian teams make up 33% of that. “phil” and a few others who still post here, do not believe the plans which the FXFL or the A11FL put in place and commented on the gaps in the financial hopes/plans of the A11FL as soon as we each joined the board. The A11FL did not have any money from investors and the little they appeared to have went into uniform design/branding and deposits on using stadiums for their “Showcase Games”. They could have had the greatest logos ever, but their cut of money from merchandising would still be less than 10% of the item's retail price. That would not have kept the lights on. While it was still a gimmick, they were unable to convince the public that their product was worth attending or buying into. One also cannot get a TV deal worth anything because their product doesn't yet exist. Example: When the A11FL announced their formation, they were looking for local investors to pay at least $10MM for a 49% stake in a franchise. So they thought each team was worth $20MM when they had ZERO DOLLARS in revenue. This NAFL has the same team salary range of approx. $4MM and like the A11FL, they have ZERO DOLLARS in revenue. These proposed leagues greatly overvalue themselves to investors on a consistent basis. As for the NAFL in Birmingham...when will people learn that the state of Alabama does not care for professional football. They only care about the University of Alabama and Auburn University football with the small part of the population who attended another SEC school, or possibly a Historically Black college/university. They may want to actually ASK those who live there first before getting embarrassed by lack of attendance after two games.
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Post by clevelandfan1 on Sept 14, 2014 19:33:55 GMT -5
So you believe the A11FL or USFL would make it but not this league? Don't forget they will not only make money from tickets. You can count merchandise, sponsors, league owners fee, etc., just like the other spring leagues that don't announce anything for months. They don't make revenue only from tickets. Economics don't lie. Another article about the NAFL but this time about the Birmingham Freedom: www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/09/is_city_ready_for_another_pro.htmlEurofan, I am going to piggyback 'phil" and his comments. The economics of minor league sport(s), and even the NHL are very simple. Quite simply, the majority of team income comes from paid attendance, also know as gate receipts. People have to be watching the games live in person for them to stay in business. Prior to the just signed national TV deals for both the USA and Canada, the NHL has over 60% of their team revenues from paid attendance and the Canadian teams make up 33% of that. “phil” and a few others who still post here, do not believe the plans which the FXFL or the A11FL put in place and commented on the gaps in the financial hopes/plans of the A11FL as soon as we each joined the board. The A11FL did not have any money from investors and the little they appeared to have went into uniform design/branding and deposits on using stadiums for their “Showcase Games”. They could have had the greatest logos ever, but their cut of money from merchandising would still be less than 10% of the item's retail price. That would not have kept the lights on. While it was still a gimmick, they were unable to convince the public that their product was worth attending or buying into. One also cannot get a TV deal worth anything because their product doesn't yet exist. Example: When the A11FL announced their formation, they were looking for local investors to pay at least $10MM for a 49% stake in a franchise. So they thought each team was worth $20MM when they had ZERO DOLLARS in revenue. This NAFL has the same team salary range of approx. $4MM and like the A11FL, they have ZERO DOLLARS in revenue. These proposed leagues greatly overvalue themselves to investors on a consistent basis. As for the NAFL in Birmingham...when will people learn that the state of Alabama does not care for professional football. They only care about the University of Alabama and Auburn University football with the small part of the population who attended another SEC school, or possibly a Historically Black college/university. They may want to actually ASK those who live there first before getting embarrassed by lack of attendance after two games. As for professional football in Birmingham they do care. In the first year of the USFL they rank in the middle of the league with and average of 22,000 per game the second and third season they were near the top of the league both years with 36,000 and 32,000 per game. www.kenn.com/the_blog/?page_id=4671 Also the Birmingham Fire didn't do too bad they averaged around 15,000 per game for their two years there. The Birmingham Americans were the top attendance in the World League back in the 70's with around 40,000 a game. www.kenn.com/the_blog/?page_id=3333
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Post by spgpointsperson on Sept 15, 2014 10:31:00 GMT -5
Eurofan, I am going to piggyback 'phil" and his comments. The economics of minor league sport(s), and even the NHL are very simple. Quite simply, the majority of team income comes from paid attendance, also know as gate receipts. People have to be watching the games live in person for them to stay in business. Prior to the just signed national TV deals for both the USA and Canada, the NHL has over 60% of their team revenues from paid attendance and the Canadian teams make up 33% of that. “phil” and a few others who still post here, do not believe the plans which the FXFL or the A11FL put in place and commented on the gaps in the financial hopes/plans of the A11FL as soon as we each joined the board. The A11FL did not have any money from investors and the little they appeared to have went into uniform design/branding and deposits on using stadiums for their “Showcase Games”. They could have had the greatest logos ever, but their cut of money from merchandising would still be less than 10% of the item's retail price. That would not have kept the lights on. While it was still a gimmick, they were unable to convince the public that their product was worth attending or buying into. One also cannot get a TV deal worth anything because their product doesn't yet exist. Example: When the A11FL announced their formation, they were looking for local investors to pay at least $10MM for a 49% stake in a franchise. So they thought each team was worth $20MM when they had ZERO DOLLARS in revenue. This NAFL has the same team salary range of approx. $4MM and like the A11FL, they have ZERO DOLLARS in revenue. These proposed leagues greatly overvalue themselves to investors on a consistent basis. As for the NAFL in Birmingham...when will people learn that the state of Alabama does not care for professional football. They only care about the University of Alabama and Auburn University football with the small part of the population who attended another SEC school, or possibly a Historically Black college/university. They may want to actually ASK those who live there first before getting embarrassed by lack of attendance after two games. As for professional football in Birmingham they do care. In the first year of the USFL they rank in the middle of the league with and average of 22,000 per game the second and third season they were near the top of the league both years with 36,000 and 32,000 per game. www.kenn.com/the_blog/?page_id=4671 Also the Birmingham Fire didn't do too bad they averaged around 15,000 per game for their two years there. The Birmingham Americans were the top attendance in the World League back in the 70's with around 40,000 a game. www.kenn.com/the_blog/?page_id=3333Care to notice the trend? The attendance got lower and lower as the years pass from the USFL. Many who bought tickets to those teams are either now in: Assisted Living Seniors On a fixed income Dead Heck, you did not even mention the year's attendance of under 20K for that single XFL season and that even emphasizes my point even more. Then we get to Legion Field and how it is close to be condemned.
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phil
3rd String
Posts: 276
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Post by phil on Sept 15, 2014 11:23:19 GMT -5
Birmingham has had a team in just about every league that has been started up in the last 40 years (and some that never started - I think that league that was supposed to be an extension of college, the All-American Football League or whatever it was, might have even had a team there).
That says something about the perception of Birmingham as a football market. That perception likely still exists, even though, as you point out yourself, the decreasing expressed level of interest in each successive team in each successive league.
Go ahead, NAFL. Rock on. Let's see what happens.
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Post by clevelandfan1 on Sept 16, 2014 19:22:42 GMT -5
As for professional football in Birmingham they do care. In the first year of the USFL they rank in the middle of the league with and average of 22,000 per game the second and third season they were near the top of the league both years with 36,000 and 32,000 per game. www.kenn.com/the_blog/?page_id=4671 Also the Birmingham Fire didn't do too bad they averaged around 15,000 per game for their two years there. The Birmingham Americans were the top attendance in the World League back in the 70's with around 40,000 a game. www.kenn.com/the_blog/?page_id=3333Care to notice the trend? The attendance got lower and lower as the years pass from the USFL. Many who bought tickets to those teams are either now in: Assisted Living Seniors On a fixed income Dead Heck, you did not even mention the year's attendance of under 20K for that single XFL season and that even emphasizes my point even more. Then we get to Legion Field and how it is close to be condemned. No I didn't notice that from the first year to the second they averaged 14,00o more per game and by the third year while the league was failing they were bringing in more then any other city and still pulling more then 10,000 then their first year. Also I think that more people have been born since the mid 80's. I'm sure they might want to buy tickets too. I think that Birmingham deserves a chance to be in another league. Seems like the team that has the best chance to fail is Orlando. Even the NFL teams in Florida have a hard time getting people to show up.
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phil
3rd String
Posts: 276
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Post by phil on Sept 17, 2014 12:47:48 GMT -5
He meant:
WFL era: 40,000 a game USFL era: 30,000 a game WLAF era: 20,000 a game XFL: 17,000 a game
THAT'S the trend he's talking about. Not 1983 to 1984 to 1985.
If you were a 25-year-old fan in 1974 who bought Americans tickets, you're 65 today. Not exactly a desirable demographic. If you were a 25-year-old fan in 1984 who bought Stallions tickets, you're 55 today and likely have other priorities (if you even still live in Birmingham). If you were a 25-year-old fan in 1992 who bought Fire tickets, you're 47 today and probably just bought a second house or a huge screen to watch Alabama and/or Auburn on.
And if you were born since the mid-1980s, you are under 30 and have no sense of the other teams or why you should take a flyer on some league that just popped out of the ground yesterday. Especially when Bama and Auburn have been playing for a century and then some.
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Post by spgpointsperson on Sept 17, 2014 18:43:25 GMT -5
He meant: WFL era: 40,000 a game USFL era: 30,000 a game WLAF era: 20,000 a game XFL: 17,000 a game THAT'S the trend he's talking about. Not 1983 to 1984 to 1985. If you were a 25-year-old fan in 1974 who bought Americans tickets, you're 65 today. Not exactly a desirable demographic. If you were a 25-year-old fan in 1984 who bought Stallions tickets, you're 55 today and likely have other priorities (if you even still live in Birmingham). If you were a 25-year-old fan in 1992 who bought Fire tickets, you're 47 today and probably just bought a second house or a huge screen to watch Alabama and/or Auburn on. And if you were born since the mid-1980s, you are under 30 and have no sense of the other teams or why you should take a flyer on some league that just popped out of the ground yesterday. Especially when Bama and Auburn have been playing for a century and then some. Exactly. Going back to the "Birmingham football well" again is foolish since the well is d@mn near dry. I guess they can try to play in the suburb of Hoover since the Barons moved downtown, so there is an empty stadium, but it still is a poorly thought out decision. And this league also wants to have a team in Columbus? I guess nobody there remembers the Ohio Glory. Then they also want to
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Post by spgpointsperson on Sept 17, 2014 18:45:55 GMT -5
He meant: WFL era: 40,000 a game USFL era: 30,000 a game WLAF era: 20,000 a game XFL: 17,000 a game THAT'S the trend he's talking about. Not 1983 to 1984 to 1985. If you were a 25-year-old fan in 1974 who bought Americans tickets, you're 65 today. Not exactly a desirable demographic. If you were a 25-year-old fan in 1984 who bought Stallions tickets, you're 55 today and likely have other priorities (if you even still live in Birmingham). If you were a 25-year-old fan in 1992 who bought Fire tickets, you're 47 today and probably just bought a second house or a huge screen to watch Alabama and/or Auburn on. And if you were born since the mid-1980s, you are under 30 and have no sense of the other teams or why you should take a flyer on some league that just popped out of the ground yesterday. Especially when Bama and Auburn have been playing for a century and then some. Exactly. Going back to the "Birmingham football well" again is foolish since the well is d@mn near dry. I guess they can try to play in the suburb of Hoover since the Barons moved downtown, so there is an empty stadium, but it still is a poorly thought out decision. And this league also wants to have a team in Columbus? I guess nobody there remembers the Ohio Glory and how quickly their attendance dropped in their only season.
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Post by clevelandfan1 on Sept 17, 2014 19:43:12 GMT -5
Exactly. Going back to the "Birmingham football well" again is foolish since the well is d@mn near dry. I guess they can try to play in the suburb of Hoover since the Barons moved downtown, so there is an empty stadium, but it still is a poorly thought out decision. And this league also wants to have a team in Columbus? I guess nobody there remembers the Ohio Glory and how quickly their attendance dropped in their only season. Ohio Glory didn't have that bad of attendance except the last two games but they had only won one game by then. A couple of games in the 30,000 range and a game in the 40,000 area. If you check the rest of the league they averaged more then any other team in the United States. Ohio loves football and would welcome another team. www.footballdb.com/teams/wlaf/ohio-glory/results/1992
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